Hi all.
I need some info on DIY welding.
My car needs new sills welded on and I would like to have a go myself, (I did some welding at college, just as an overview course to engineering, so I know the basics).
What would be the best type of weld, MIG, TIG etc. The sill metal is quite thin and I wouldn't like to burn holes through it, (I would obviously practice first).
I have the facilities but no welder so need some info before I buy something.
Cheers
Greg
Welding (DIY)
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Welding (DIY)
by Greg Stewart » Fri Jul 09, 2004 21:58
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Welding
by John R Walters » Sat Jul 10, 2004 00:30
My reply is totally non productive, but I too look forward to someone with useful info coming forward so that we all can burn holes in panels even if we do practice before hand!
I to became a welder for a time and like any manual task, it may look easy, and is easy after the first 5 years BUT!!
I to became a welder for a time and like any manual task, it may look easy, and is easy after the first 5 years BUT!!
- John R Walters
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by Greg Stewart » Sun Jul 11, 2004 21:34
After a bit of research, about welding machines etc. these are my conclusions:
Mig welding is the best for car body work, but the machine has to have the facility to adjust the output to a reasonably low level for thin metal.
A Mig welding machine with max' output of 130 to 150 amps is sufficient for 5 to 6mm plate steel (obviously a lot thicker than a cars body work).
It also needs to be adjustable down to about 30 amps for thinner metal.
Mig with gas (argon, CO2 etc.), gives a lot cleaner weld but also requires gas bottles (relatively cheap and last for ages, so I've been told). Gas can be bought in disposable canisters which can be disposed of normally because they depressurise after use.
Gasless Mig wire is also available which has a flux core which creates its own gas envelope during use. This is slightly more expensive but doesn't require gas. The weld is also not as clean as with gas and needs a bit of practice.
A dual Gas/Gasless machine can be bought for between £150 to £180 and can be used out of the box (it comes with gasless wire, mask etc). Cheaper ones at £100 may do for panels with gas but are lower power rated so not as versatile for other projects.
Stainless steel and aluminium wire can also be used in these machines (with gas).
Hope this helps anyone else thinking of DIY bodywork repair. I'll give it a try and report my success (hopefully
).
Greg
Mig welding is the best for car body work, but the machine has to have the facility to adjust the output to a reasonably low level for thin metal.
A Mig welding machine with max' output of 130 to 150 amps is sufficient for 5 to 6mm plate steel (obviously a lot thicker than a cars body work).
It also needs to be adjustable down to about 30 amps for thinner metal.
Mig with gas (argon, CO2 etc.), gives a lot cleaner weld but also requires gas bottles (relatively cheap and last for ages, so I've been told). Gas can be bought in disposable canisters which can be disposed of normally because they depressurise after use.
Gasless Mig wire is also available which has a flux core which creates its own gas envelope during use. This is slightly more expensive but doesn't require gas. The weld is also not as clean as with gas and needs a bit of practice.
A dual Gas/Gasless machine can be bought for between £150 to £180 and can be used out of the box (it comes with gasless wire, mask etc). Cheaper ones at £100 may do for panels with gas but are lower power rated so not as versatile for other projects.
Stainless steel and aluminium wire can also be used in these machines (with gas).
Hope this helps anyone else thinking of DIY bodywork repair. I'll give it a try and report my success (hopefully
).
Greg
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Greg Stewart - Regional Representative
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 09:39
- Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
by Murray Betts » Mon Jul 12, 2004 00:25
FWIW, my experience with MIG.
I do some light fabrication work, usually using 3 or 5mm black steel, flats/angles/hollows/rounds, plate etc. A few years ago I searched the subject of machines, and ended up with an industrial standard m/c, Murex 190, single phase. It'll go reliably down to 30A, though I only keep 0.8mm wire which is a little thick to do car bodywork, you'd be better off with 0.6mm I think. It has nice features like "spot" timed and "stitch" functions (you can set the on/off times to produce repeatable spot welds or neat intermittent welds).
For hobby or DIY this standard of m/c cannot be justified. The gas bottle hire contract alone rules it out really.
The gas you use has quite a big influence on the quality of the weld for different sections, I use BOC gases and started with the Argoshield Light, but since switching to Argoshield Universal (a bit more CO2 I think) I find the 3-5mm weight sections weld much better. They also do a "Heavy" grade.
I have used a "DIY" type MIG welder (Clarke) and it actually does a reasonable job particularly on the light gauge sheet material typical of car bodywork. What you don't get is the robustness of the industrial machine, the torch doesn't feel as nice to use, and the feed mechanism isn't quite as reliable/consistent. If it isn't being used a lot, and you are careful with it, it can be fine.
The most important thing is to ensure the material is as clean as you can get it, all paint must be removed to get really clean welds....and practice a lot!
The other thing I found is that since buying an automatic helmet (an ESAB Eye-tech 10-12, bought from BOC with a little price negotiation) my welding has improved no end! They really do make a huge difference in ease of working. They come in various levels of range they'll cover, for light MIG you really only need a 10-11 grade. They start around £80 now I think, most seem to use lenses from one or two suppliers.
You need decent gauntlets, though these can be as little as £3 or so, and consider Proban overalls (fire retardent) at around £20. Remember MIG arcs will cause "sun-burn" on exposed skin.
I've had some stuff from here
http://www.protecdirect.co.uk/List.asp? ... kwear&i=58
I do some light fabrication work, usually using 3 or 5mm black steel, flats/angles/hollows/rounds, plate etc. A few years ago I searched the subject of machines, and ended up with an industrial standard m/c, Murex 190, single phase. It'll go reliably down to 30A, though I only keep 0.8mm wire which is a little thick to do car bodywork, you'd be better off with 0.6mm I think. It has nice features like "spot" timed and "stitch" functions (you can set the on/off times to produce repeatable spot welds or neat intermittent welds).
For hobby or DIY this standard of m/c cannot be justified. The gas bottle hire contract alone rules it out really.
The gas you use has quite a big influence on the quality of the weld for different sections, I use BOC gases and started with the Argoshield Light, but since switching to Argoshield Universal (a bit more CO2 I think) I find the 3-5mm weight sections weld much better. They also do a "Heavy" grade.
I have used a "DIY" type MIG welder (Clarke) and it actually does a reasonable job particularly on the light gauge sheet material typical of car bodywork. What you don't get is the robustness of the industrial machine, the torch doesn't feel as nice to use, and the feed mechanism isn't quite as reliable/consistent. If it isn't being used a lot, and you are careful with it, it can be fine.
The most important thing is to ensure the material is as clean as you can get it, all paint must be removed to get really clean welds....and practice a lot!
The other thing I found is that since buying an automatic helmet (an ESAB Eye-tech 10-12, bought from BOC with a little price negotiation) my welding has improved no end! They really do make a huge difference in ease of working. They come in various levels of range they'll cover, for light MIG you really only need a 10-11 grade. They start around £80 now I think, most seem to use lenses from one or two suppliers.
You need decent gauntlets, though these can be as little as £3 or so, and consider Proban overalls (fire retardent) at around £20. Remember MIG arcs will cause "sun-burn" on exposed skin.
I've had some stuff from here
http://www.protecdirect.co.uk/List.asp? ... kwear&i=58
- Murray Betts
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by George Glew » Thu Jul 22, 2004 15:11
Hi
I just saw a programme on Tuesday on Discovery Home and Liesure A 4 x 4 is born Where the presenter is building a hill-climbing vehicle.
Ther was a large section of one episode involving demonstrating the use of both MIG and TIG welding.
These programmes are always regularly repeated so it may be an idea to look out for them.
Incidentaly it demonstrated the strenght of a good weld my lifting half a ton with a half inch weld!
George
I just saw a programme on Tuesday on Discovery Home and Liesure A 4 x 4 is born Where the presenter is building a hill-climbing vehicle.
Ther was a large section of one episode involving demonstrating the use of both MIG and TIG welding.
These programmes are always regularly repeated so it may be an idea to look out for them.
Incidentaly it demonstrated the strenght of a good weld my lifting half a ton with a half inch weld!
George
- George Glew
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