Highway Robbery

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Highway Robbery

Postby Lisa Balsom » Wed Jan 17, 2007 18:09

Last edited by Lisa Balsom on Wed Jan 17, 2007 20:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ken Malone » Wed Jan 17, 2007 19:36

well I would do if the email would come :roll:
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Postby Jacob Dean » Wed Jan 17, 2007 19:46

Yep!
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Postby Ken Malone » Wed Jan 17, 2007 19:54

which it eventually did so yes
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Postby Dick Winchester » Wed Jan 17, 2007 21:16

Yes - done already.... !!
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Postby Ian Linden » Wed Jan 17, 2007 23:59

Maybe we should have a bit of controversy on the Board from time to time :twisted:

Tell me why this is wrong:

The only way to prevent congestion getting worse is to charge enough to discourage the behaviour of driving in congested areas at congested times. Taxing fuel is just too clumsy. It needs to be directed at the places and times where the problem is.

The London congestion charge, however unpopular with those who have to pay it, or avoid the area, has worked. If its effect reduces, all that has to be done is raise the price.

As long as the revenue so raised is employed to provide good quality alternative, less congesting, means of travel, I have to say it's the way to go.

I'd like it to go further, by using it to replace vehicle excise duty and fuel duty. Then travelling on deserted B roads in the Scottish Highlands (for example) would be cheaper than it is now!

How's that for cat amongst the pigeons :D
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Postby Alan Percival » Thu Jan 18, 2007 01:05

I have a question about car tracking if your car is stolen and it can be tracked can it then be found? If this is the case then would this not reduce car theft and would this then not reduce insurance premiums.
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Postby Dick Winchester » Thu Jan 18, 2007 02:51

Ian...... I see a number of problems..

Firstly there is no guarantee that tax on petrol/diesel will be reduced to compensate... It may be reduced a little but overall the cost of commuting will go up.. That's a tax on jobs..

Secondly, in most parts of the country there are no alternatives and no plans to create them. Up here the public transport system is so poor that there is no way anyone outside Aberdeen could use it to get to work. So it's actually unlikely to make a great difference.

Thirdly, driving on deserted B roads in Scotland is indeed very pleasurable but as I understand it they are unlikely to be that much cheaper than anything else.

Fourthly, these proposals make no attempt to promote the use of new technology to increase the amount of home working.. In Germany the Govt has deliberately prevented competition from infringing on the work of Deutsche Telekom to roll out high speed Broadband ( think it was up to 100Mb/sec) because they believe this technology will not only provide German companies with a competitive advantage but because they believe it will encourage things like video conferencing... The UK Govt won't do this and so BT won't roll it out because of the costs involved..
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Postby Ian Linden » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:24

Dick Winchester wrote:Firstly there is no guarantee that tax on petrol/diesel will be reduced to compensate... It may be reduced a little but overall the cost of commuting will go up.. That's a tax on jobs..

Secondly, in most parts of the country there are no alternatives and no plans to create them. Up here the public transport system is so poor that there is no way anyone outside Aberdeen could use it to get to work. So it's actually unlikely to make a great difference.

Thirdly, driving on deserted B roads in Scotland is indeed very pleasurable but as I understand it they are unlikely to be that much cheaper than anything else.


1. As I understand it, it's not supposed to reduce to compensate. The whole idea is to shift the payments from where they currently fall (on everyone equally) to bear on the vehicle use at congested times and places.

2. Is there any congestion outside Aberdeen? If not, there would be no need to price those roads to reduce use.

3. My belief is that little-used roads would not be charged. I don't see it as practical to blanket-charge the UK as a whole. I know the initial proposal is £1.34 a mile for the top charge, and 2p a mile for the bottom, but I think they will come to realise that it's more cost effective to zero-rate the back routes. If not, there is still a whale of a gap between £1.34 and £0.02 :D

I don't know if this has been suggested, but the charges could also be scaled according to the emissions level of the vehicle, to encourage greener vehicles.
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Postby Ian Linden » Thu Jan 18, 2007 13:02

Alan Percival wrote:I have a question about car tracking if your car is stolen and it can be tracked can it then be found? If this is the case then would this not reduce car theft and would this then not reduce insurance premiums.


I think you're right, but they will have to address the criminal fraternity finding ways to silence the transmitter, or modifying its output to represent an "innocent" vehicle.

Come to think of it, that sort of thing would be equivalent to the current use of false plates by London CG dodgers.
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Postby Lisa Balsom » Thu Jan 18, 2007 15:53

Is that a no then Ian? :lol:
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Postby Dick Winchester » Thu Jan 18, 2007 16:18

Ian

1. If that's the case then as most people in this area commute to Aberdeen every day then few will benefit and the majority will end up paying more...

2. No there isn't any real congestion in Aberdeenshire other than in/around Aberdeen but I don't believe this means the Commissariat in Edinburgh will miss out on the opportunity to hit drivers that use those roads.

3. There may not be a blanket charge but I doubt if there will areas with a zero charge. That would lead to people using them and thus paying less tax!!

I just truly object to paying anything extra because of the decades of Govt incompetence when it comes to planning.
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Postby Ian Linden » Thu Jan 18, 2007 16:24

Lisa Balsom wrote:Is that a no then Ian? :lol:


No, Lisa, it's a technical challenge :D
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Postby Dick Winchester » Thu Jan 18, 2007 16:35

I'm sure all the good hackers will have worked out how to do it already and you'll be able to download the solution from some website somewhere soon :lol:
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Postby Ian Linden » Thu Jan 18, 2007 16:53

Dick Winchester wrote:I'm sure all the good hackers will have worked out how to do it already and you'll be able to download the solution from some website somewhere soon :lol:


If they were unwise enough to use the World Wide Web as part of the system, you would perhaps be right :D

On the other point, if it gets more expensive for the locals to rush headlong into Aberdeen daily, it may encourage the trend towards "rural office development" in disused agricultural buildings and low-rise business parks, which seem to be very popular in the South East. Now that would surely offer an improvement in Aberdeen, and a better quality of life all round.
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Postby Dick Winchester » Thu Jan 18, 2007 17:25

The implication of your post is that we're dealing with people that have at least some intelligence.. Unfortunately we have a LibDem controlled council and arguably the most unimaginative planning dept on the planet.

If you want to double the size of your village by building as many "executive style" houses as you can possibly cram in and create another wave of commuters then that's fine..... But rural office development and low rise business parks in rural areas? Nae chance...People have tried...

Our village has doubled in size in five years but we still have no shop and a school that's now overcrowded although three years ago they wanted to close it ... 8O
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Postby Ken Malone » Thu Jan 18, 2007 18:36

Dick Winchester wrote:Unfortunately we have a LibDem controlled council and arguably the most unimaginative planning dept on the planet. [


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ours is worse Dick - seriously - I am NOT joking :evil: :evil: :twisted:
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Postby Lisa Balsom » Thu Jan 18, 2007 18:59

Let's put this to bed shall we, ours is the worst.

Derby, the city designed using Lego
Derby, the first city to have it's own embassy..........WHAT!!!!!!
And my favourite, Derby, the council who have given a developer an option in a development contract to either build a bus station costing the developer £5 million or pay the council a £2 million penalty and walk away.
Mmmmm, decisions, decisions.

I shouldn't grumble, I have a laugh every time I go there. :lol:
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Postby Ken Malone » Thu Jan 18, 2007 19:40

No Lisa yours has the worst football team - Who chose the name Pride Park :):)
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Postby Lisa Balsom » Thu Jan 18, 2007 20:12

How dare you.....1946 was a very good year. :lol:

And as for Pride Park......leave it!!!
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