Waste Gate Problems

Technical queries, discussion and all-round enthusiasm for the Cappuccino.

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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Murray Betts » Sun Nov 23, 2014 01:49

In the simplest form they are a diaphragm and spring arrangement. The boost pressure acts on the diaphragm and pushes a piston against the spring so moving the rod connected to the wastegate itself. Some use a vac signal on the other side as well.

The diaphragm can leak, in which case they don't operate as soon as they should and you can get overboost, or the spring can relax and it opens at too low a pressure.

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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Ian Linden » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:36

Thanks, Murray. I though it was like an aneroid barometer, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Same principle, but beefier.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Wed Dec 10, 2014 19:45

As it is sealed, it should not lose pressure


There's the rub, mine is not sealed, so it dumps excess pressure into the engine bay and therefore doesn't open the waste gate as it should. I'm guessing that there is a diaphragm inside the actuator, and that makes the cow like moaning. I will grind the top off the old one for a post mortem, when I finally get around to doing the job.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Wed Dec 10, 2014 19:52

Is the photo from a cappucino actuator? my replacement has a straight rod not offset, could spell trouble!!! Oh for an easy life.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Ian Linden » Wed Dec 10, 2014 20:16

If you check in the Parts catalog, it looks like the Cappo rod IS straight.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Murray Betts » Thu Dec 11, 2014 01:39

Bill Sutton wrote:Is the photo from a cappucino actuator? my replacement has a straight rod not offset, could spell trouble!!! Oh for an easy life.


No, that's just a generic Google image.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Tue Dec 23, 2014 18:45

Thank god for that!! I'm in with a chance
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Fri Sep 25, 2015 16:54

OK folks, the moment is nigh!!! I can see the old actuator, and after removing loadsa hoses and one manifold, I have managed to remove one of the two bolts (the "easy" one!) The other is visible but obscured from every angle by the water in out hose manifold and pipes. I have been staring now for two hours, and have totally lost the will to live.
I think the line of least resistance is to separate the exhaust from the CAT, and unbolt the who Turbo assembly, complete with CAT lifting it forwards and upwards. It will then be a "two minute" job to change actuators and finish the job. I will obviously lose all coolant, but cant figure out whether it's going to dump all the engine oil as well, or just what remains in pipes feeding it.

Any ideas? Hints?? (please don't suggest taking it to a Suzuki Dealers :D
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Fri Sep 25, 2015 17:10

Page 6L6, under Turbocharger has a diagram with the oil inlet pipe illustrated, I cannot even see it in reality, but assume its there nonetheless. As it makes no mention of an oil outlet pipe, I am greatly confused. Where does the oil return?
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Murray Betts » Fri Sep 25, 2015 22:16

You won't lose all the oil by undoing the oil feed pipe union, only what is in the pipe. The oil return is the big hose on the bottom of the bearing housing which goes down to the side of the sump. It's a bit easier to see in the parts catalogue, item 10 on Engine Fig.13

I'm pretty sure it fits the sump above oil level (that's the normal practice anyway so there is no backpressure in the drain).
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Sun Sep 27, 2015 21:49

OK, the good news, It is the right part, at £21 much cheaper than Suzukis offer of a new turbo £200+. The bad news.........................
This is the worst job I have ever attempted in 30years of vehicle maintenance. There is very little access to the top bolt requiring hose/manifold/heat shield removal, and the bottom bolt is virtually impossible to access being behind the water in/out pipes. I did manage to undo it, but then have no way of refitting it as my hands cant get anywhere near the hole to line the bolt up. I spent 4 hours trying and reassembled with one bolt only in the hope that it doesn't involve a lot of force to open the waste gate and that it won't matter. I did consider removing the entire turbo, but the exhaust studs are solid and would have sheared, causing much more work. This car was designed by sadists, and whilst the aesthetic of making something so small but perfectly formed counts for something, another 1/2" clearance all round would have made it a much more serviceable vehicle. even from underneath there isn't a gap wide enough for a human hand to pass through, and I even considered dropping the whole sub frame and engine for access, till I noticed that it had been welded to the body by someone at some point rendering that option null and void without angle grinding it off again and presumably re welding on completion
So, was it worth it? It doesn't reek of exhaust gas recirculation any more, Hooray!! it still makes a strange moaning noise, so it wasn't the diaphragm doing that after all. I have discovered an after market variable turbo boost also fitted. Do they moan? and to cap it all, one of the water hoses won't seal with the jubilee clip re used, it only becomes apparent when the engines warm and pressurised, then it squirts steam out like a steam engine, quite spectacular/disturbing to say the least. So it will all have to come out again to access the hose and fit another clip, or hose depending on the damage.
Would I recommend this as a DIY fix? no way, if you've got the dosh pay someone, they'll hate you for evermore and probably rob you blind for the privelege, it was ever thus.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Ian Linden » Sun Sep 27, 2015 23:25

Bill Sutton wrote:... I have discovered an after market variable turbo boost also fitted. Do they moan? ...


Could you describe where this device is fitted, or better still, post a photo? The variable boost devices I know replace the wastegate actuator, whereas it sounds like this is separate from the wastegate actuator - could it be a bleed valve?
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:00

It's near the actuator, shares the same pressure feed pipe as the actuator via a T junction box affair, which interrupts the feed, sending another pipe up to some red thing with a knob on it routed behind the battery, so is piggy backing off the same feed. I can't see any electrical connection between the control unit and the junction box, and the control unit is energised direct from the battery with it's own fused live feed, so I am assuming it varies the pressure it allows to the actuator and increases boost by preventing it from actuating, by venting? Moaning??
If I can take a pic I will but access is so limited down there, it took the removal of loads of stuff to even realise what it was!!
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Ian Linden » Mon Sep 28, 2015 13:30

It sounds to me like some sort of "intelligent" bleed valve. Whether it causes the moaning - you could try removing the separate fuse - my guess is that that would close the bleed valve at all times. If the moaning stops you will have identified the culprit.

I can only say that the scheme with which I am familiar, described here (see Performance Enhancement section) does not cause moaning.
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Re: Waste Gate Problems

Postby Bill Sutton » Mon Sep 28, 2015 14:22

I am talking b******ks, there is no live feed, that's the immobiliser, so whatever it does is purely pressure regulated. took photos but don't know how to attach them. looking at your suggested post, I am guessing it is a variable pneumatic bleed valve, and, if I can blank off the outlet from it altogether, it should work as if not fitted, and possibly stop moaning to boot. Will keep you posted.
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