Throttle body

[Chris da Silva]

Can anyone help me, please? Here's what happened ...

I bought a replacement throttle body (Part # 13400-80F60) for my EA21R. But to my disappointment (and horror!) it did not line up with what it should be bolted to! The baffling part is that the gasket (Part # 13421-73G01) is correct!

So what's gone wrong here? Can someone unravel this mystery, please?

PS: I've got an image of this problem. Can someone tell me how I can tag it to this topic for everyone to see what I've explained above?

[Ian Linden]

Host the image on a suitable website (e.g. Imgur).

Then, in your post, click the URL button above the posting box, and paste the URL of the hosted image between the square brackets, thus:

"[url]URL of hosted image[/url]"

[Chris da Silva]

Amendment .... The attachment I mentioned is a printed docket.

So which item of the list above should I click on?

[Ian Linden]

If it's printed, you could scan it as a .jpg and then act as above.

Alternatively, if it's a web page, use [url]URL of web page[/url]

[Chris da Silva]

Can you walk me through the procedure to upload a JPG file on this site, please? I've had several attempts at doing it; but all of them were dismal failures.

I've never done anything like this before; but if you give me a step by step instruction, I can upload the file to illustrate the problem I have when I first brought this topic up.

Thanks.

[Ian Linden]

Go to https://imgur.com/register and register (it's free!)

Once you have signed in, click New post, then drag and drop the image, or Choose Photo/Video and navigate to the image. Once the image is uploaded, click Back twice on your browser, and you will see the image top left. Click the image, then, at the list on the right, click Copy against BB-Code.

Now paste the link into your SCORE post [CTRL-V]. That's it.

[Chris da Silva]

So that's it (see circled) - you can see that the notch doesn't line up with the new replacement throttle body. (The throttle body is the circled one on the right of the picture .....)

That's why the car is still in the workshop. Has anyone got any ideas why, please? Help urgently needed ......

[Chris da Silva]

I've got a bigger picture for clarity.

This is my problem: It's the correct replacement throttle body - (Part # 13400-80F60).

Next question: Is the part it should be bolted to - the one on the left - correct? (Hmmm - the mind boggles!) That part was already on the car when I bought it a few years ago; and it's the first time I'm looking at it .....

[Ian Linden]

How do you KNOW it's the correct throttle body? Perhaps the manufacturer packed it with the wrong part number? I would return it to the seller, and complain that it is NOT the correct part. Point out that the gasket is correct.

[Chris da Silva]

Hi Ian

Here's a reply I got from the supplier of the throttle body ....

" ..... we know it's the correct throttle body as we checked with the manufacturer, simple as that. Search any image of 13400-80F60 which is the only part available and you will see they are identical to what you were supplied with."

I'll have to stay with the supplied item now. It's ironic that the actual part number appears on the metal casing of the throttle body if you look carefully at the image.

What got me scratching my head in the first place is that the two notches are not aligned!

As the throttle body is bolted to the inlet manifold, then maybe I will need a new one [manifold] so that the two flanges can mate properly. And is the inlet manifold of the EA21R's the same one as used on the EA11R's? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure they're not. Alternatively, does Suzuki list a modified manifold to accommodate the throttle body [of the EA21R's] or have they been using those which were bolted on the EA11R units? (It's unusual for Suzuki to make that error.) So what do you think?

Before I forget, the current gasket (13421-73G01) mates with the current manifold [still on the car] but not the throttle body.

[Ian Linden]

The manifolds of EA11R and EA21R are differently numbered and visibly very different in the Parts Catalogs. You should be able to tell which one you have from the appearance. Anyway, the drawing for the EA21R manifold shows the off-vertical feature which yours has.

Another possibility is that it doesn't matter - feature is not used in that application. Can you compare with the throttle body you took off?

[Chris da Silva]

Alas no! The old throttle was a part exchange meaning that I had to send the old one away to get a new replacement. (Reminds me of what was the "norm" a few decades ago when worn out starter motors and alternators were sent away if a replacement was needed! In short, a one-for-one swap!)

Coming back to the replacement throttle body, I'll have to see how it can be adjusted once it's bolted on to the inlet manifold flange! As an aside, I later discovered that there were three variants of inlet manifolds in the early stages of the EA21R's production as given in the service manual [much to my surprise] - but it soon "standardized" itself so that only one design of inlet manifold was required for the whole production run of the EA21R's. (That, too, was given in the service manual.) The final variant was officially mounted into cars with VIN: EA21R-102774 onwards. (Mine is EA21R-103970 so it's already well into the production run when using the only one type/design of manifold was "standardized".)

Anyway, I've now spoken to my mechanic and he'll have a go at it tomorrow (Monday) morning. Fingers crossed.

[Chris da Silva]

Hi Ian

I need your opinion on the following niggling problem I have ....

Not that long ago, I had a replacement throttle body (Part # 13400-80F60) fitted. In the early stages, the engine was a little lumpy when starting from cold; but it smoothed out once the engine reached its operating temperature. I'm gathering that it takes a little while for the new part to settle in. But here's what happened next ...

A week before Xmas, I took the Cappo out for a short run to warm the engine up. The engine fired up first time; and it ran quite smoothly when it reached its normal operating temperature.

At the end of the run, I pulled up outside my lock-up and switched off the engine because I had to open the door [of the lock-up]. But when I got back in the car and tried starting it up, it was most reluctant to fire up, much to my surprise! In fact, I tried several times, and I nearly ran the battery down doing it! Finally, I had no choice but to literally push the car back into the lock up!

My question is this: Does the new throttle body require setting up again? And/or has the fuel in the fuel line evaporated, preventing it from reaching the throttle body? In which case, how about wrapping the fuel line with heat insulating material? (I know that the fuel pump is working just fine.)

[Ian Linden]

I am not familiar with the EA21R engine, so I can only reply with my understanding of the EA11R. I don't think the fuel has any direct connection with the TB. The function of the TB is to regulate airflow, and sensors measure that and inject fuel directly into the inlet manifold.

There is probably a nut on the fuel rail which carries the injectors, With the ignition on, you can loosen the nut until a little fuel spurts out under pump pressure. Have a rag handy to soak it up. That will tell you whether fuel supply to the injectors is an issue. There is test equipment usually called a noid lamp which can determine whether injectors are being driven to open.

I suggest you have a read of the EA11R Service Manual. From memory, the only setting up associated with the throttle body is setting the idle, which it does by controlling the airflow. The EA11R uses an Idle Air Control Valve - I don't know about the EA21R - there may be some differences.

[Chris da Silva]

Thanks Ian.

I'll give it a go, following your directives and see what happens.

Cheers!

[Murray Betts]

Chris, can you explain what those notches connect to, what is the function of them? I haven't studied the hardware in detail and I don't know what those features are for.
Note that both of them, while they don't actually align, are open to the main air passage. In other words, whether they align or not doesn't actually make any difference to the air access in/out of the notch. Does the gasket have one, two, or no notches to match the aluminium components?

[Chris da Silva]

Hi Murray. Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know what the notches connect to as I haven't seen anything like this before!

The gasket supplied is patterned to fit the flange of the other part that's bolted on to the throttle body; but why the throttle body's flange does not align with it has got me scratching my head!

So what I'm going to do is to consult a master technician in the next few weeks and see what he makes of it.

I'll post an update on this site when the tech has come up with a solution.

[Murray Betts]

I'm still not 100% sure what the exact problem is. The fact that the notches don't line up is probably not an issue, they are both open at the inner side to the main air passage so any airflow will be free.

Is the problem that the throttle body doesn't actually fit, the bolt holes don't line up or something similar??

[Chris da Silva]

Hi Murray.

The throttle body fits perfectly and in line with the mounting holes. So I haven't got a problem with that.

The only thing which does not line up are the notches as you can see from an earlier image I posted.

I can only surmise that the new unit needs setting up again. Saying that, I manage to track down a Cappuccino tech and will bring the car to him shortly.

[Murray Betts]

Thanks Chris. Let's hope the tech can clarify everything.